Motivational talk: Doing motivation in job centre meetings with disadvantaged youth

Abstract

In recent decades, the concept of motivation has become central to active labour market policies (ALMP) across various welfare regimes. Within the ALMP framework, client motivation has been addressed through both ‘hard’ approaches, such as economic sanctions and benefit reductions, and ‘soft’ approaches, including client-involving conversations aimed at tailoring individualized action plans based on clients’ aspirations and goals. Despite the growing emphasis on motivation in policy development, the concept itself remains underexplored in social work and policy research. This paper employs a conversation analytical methodology to examine 27 audio recordings of naturally occurring interactions in Danish job centres between frontline social workers and young, disadvantaged clients at the margins of employment and education. By focusing on these interactions, the paper investigates how motivation is constructed and managed at the forefront of Danish ALMP, offering both empirical and theoretical insights into the field. The analysis of ‘motivational talk’ sequences reveals that social workers introduce the concept of motivation into the conversations, assuming that motivation exists as a latent quality within clients, which can then be ‘cultivated’ into actionable, short-term steps toward activation. When clients struggle to express motivation oriented toward activation due to their personal circumstances, the conversation shifts to framing motivation as rather abstract hopes and beliefs.

Keywords

motivation conversation analysis social work active labour market policies

Introduction

The idea of motivation is everywhere in social work and has been for decades (Gold, 1990). One indication of this is the advance of Motivational Interviewing (MI) (Miller and Rollnick, 2012) in diverse social work areas such as substance use treatment (Andersen and Pors, 2019), in detention camps (Kohl, 2022), and in child- and family-related social work (Boyle et al., 2019). In relation to the context of active labour market policies (ALMP), within which the present study is conducted, the concept of motivation has taken centre stage over recent decades. Studies from Australia (McDonald and Marston, 2008), the UK (Wright, 2016), Norway (Håvold, 2018), and Denmark (Jørgensen, 2009) all document how the ‘problem’ of unemployment has to an increasing extent come to be understood as a ‘motivational deficit’, residing within the individual, to engage actively in job seeking activities in order to return to the labour market (Wright, 2016).

Being widely present in social work practice, motivation has been approached from different perspectives in social work research (Baumeister, 2016). While some conceptualise motivation as the starting point for understanding human behaviour (Miller and Rollnick, 2012), making motivation a central component of co-productive and client-involving social work practices, others conceptualise motivation as a policy instrument for control, serving to individualise social problems (Ahl, 2006; Pultz, 2024). Despite this ongoing scholarly debate, research on the actual doings of motivation at the forefront of social policies – that is, how motivation is accomplished in meetings between social workers and clients – remains very scarce. Accordingly, we argue, the debate on the role of motivation in social work needs to move closer to actual social work practice. It is the aim of this article to contribute hereto.

In doing so, we utilize conversation analytical (CA) methodology to explore how ‘motivation’ is accomplished at the micro-level of social policy, specifically, through encounters between social workers and clients. This entails examination of both (a) the ideas of motivation that is talked into being by participants, and (b) the interactional process of how they do so in meetings. We analyse sequences of ‘motivational talk’ in 27 audio recordings of naturally occurring meetings in Danish jobcentres between social workers and young, disadvantaged clients (aged 18-29) on the margins of employment and education.

In the following sections, we (a) review existing knowledge on the role and doings of motivation in ALMP, (b) account for the article’s research setting, data and methodology, (c) present our findings on ‘motivational talk’ at the forefront of Danish ALMP, and (d) conclude the study by discussing its implications for future studies on motivation within social work research.

Motivation in social work in active labour market settings

The academic literature on motivation in social work in active labour market settings identifies motivation as a policy instrument, and Pultz (2019) suggests two distinct, though somewhat overlapping versions hereof. For one, an economic conceptualisation of motivation is primarily related to economic incentive structures external to the individual, as policy seeks to ‘motivate’ the individual into activation through ‘hard’ methods, such as economic sanctions or permanent lowering of welfare benefits. Second, a more psychological conceptualisation expands motivational work to focus on the individual’s ‘autonomous’ motivation – i.e. intrinsic or internalised motivations – as a target of policy intervention through ‘soft’ methods, such as conversations and courses (ibid.:177ff). Importantly, ‘soft’ methods can target both the quality of the autonomous motivation (i.e. what the client is motivated for) and the quantity of autonomous motivation (i.e. how much the client wants to e.g. enter employment) (Hjelte et al., 2018). Schjødt (2022) draws on a similar conceptualisation and finds that ‘internalised motivation’, i.e. that the client ‘authentically’ wants to find employment or education (ibid.:2ff), is the most prevalent type of motivation in his study involving 18 young, unemployed interviewees in Denmark (ibid.:6ff). Somewhat questioning these results, Pultz (2019) conceptualises motivation as an ‘affective resource’ (cf. Ahmad, 2014), which the unemployed person is expected to exhibit through job seeking activities. If the client fails to do so, they will potentially be placed in a position of ‘motivational debt’, which can lead to feelings of shame (Pultz, 2019). In line with this, other studies have shown how clients risk being categorised as ‘bad job-seekers’, if they do not express motivation when encountering the employment services (Mäkitalo, 2006); or that clients, whom frontline social workers (SWs) perceive to be motivated, may be given advantages over less motivated clients in the employment services (Gjersøe and Strand, 2023). Katznelson (2017) applies a social constructivist, contextual lens and suggests that motivation arises in the meeting between the individual, who possesses preferences, skills, experiences, etc., and a specific institutional context, e.g. the educational system, with its institutional, structural specificities (ibid.:626f).

While these studies vary in their conceptualisations of motivation, they do cast light on the interplay between policy expectations and individual motivations. However, very few studies have examined motivation at the level where policies and individuals meet; that is, in this context, meetings between young clients and SWs at the frontline of ALMP. This may be especially relevant to explore regarding the use of ‘soft’ motivational methods, which can be related to the doings of ‘self-reflexive client participation’ achieved in dialogue at the frontline of public service delivery (Monrad, 2020). In this dialogue, the client is expected to self-reflexively articulate (and be aware of) their own wishes, needs and, we add, motivations (ibid.:553ff). Whether this form of client participation feels empowering or disciplining to the clients, Monrad (2020:558) suggests, depends on “(…) how the institutional interaction unfolds, the strategies and methods used by the practitioner, the resources of the client and, consequently, the subject-positions created for the client and practitioner”. This finds support in Schjødt (2022), who finds that the ‘identified motivation’ of the young unemployed in his study to a large extent depends on whether the client perceives the meeting with the frontline SW as respectful and responsive (ibid.:11).

Doing motivation at the forefront of active labour market policies

Only a small group of studies have explored how motivation is being done at the frontlines of ALMP (or other social work settings). Studies report that social workers (SWs) find it crucial to target the clients’ motivation (a) because motivated clients are believed to be a prerequisite for successful activation initiatives (e.g. Håvold, 2018:167), and (b) because there is a risk of ‘alienating’ the client if SWs fail to incorporate the clients’ motivation into the formulation of the action plan in client-involving social work (Nielsen and Monrad, 2023:811f). Moving closer to the actual doings of motivation, Håvold (2018) and Grandia et al. (2020) report on SWs’ motivating strategies directed towards clients. Grandia et al. (2020) find a mix of supportive (e.g. showing empathy) and coercive (e.g. sanctions) elements, which SWs combine in targeting the specific client (see Hansen and Natland (2017) for similar findings). Håvold (2018) operationalises the motivational strategies as three distinct types of ‘talk’: ‘opportunity talk’ (focused on the clients’ resources, self-confidence, and attitudes), ‘work talk’ (trying to reframe ‘work’ in a positive light’), and ‘identity talk’ (addressing who the client wants to be), opportunity talk being the predominant motivational strategy. Additionally, Nielsen & Monrad (2023) show that SWs use different coping strategies to handle the normative conflict that can arise, when SWs seek to incorporate clients’ wishes and motivations into activation plans, while at the same time ensuring that the plan is realistic and legitimate in the institutional setting of ALMP. When these normative conflicts arise, the SWs try to sustain clients’ motivation for activation, while ‘challenging’ their long-term activation goals, by (a) dividing the activation plan into smaller pieces and tasks, which can again be (b) set to be completed at different points in time (ibid.:815ff). Across these studies, the doing of motivation emerges as pragmatic attempts at balancing different considerations, based in situated and to some extent collaborative interactions with clients. However, with very few exceptions (Grandia et al., 2020), these studies rely on interview data, leaving direct study of actual interactions underutilised.

In this study, we aim to contribute to filling this gap by analysing motivation via naturally occurring interaction. We approach motivation as a relational and contextual phenomenon (cf. Katznelson 2017), thus allowing for different conceptualisations of motivation to emerge, depending on the interactional achievements of participants.

Methodology

Research setting

The study is set within the context of ALMP in Denmark. Similar to developments in other ‘Western’ welfare states (e.g. Van Berkel et al., 2017), socially disadvantaged client groups – facing problems besides unemployment, e.g. physical or mental health issues – have increasingly come to be a target group for ALMP. Hence, activation work has to an increasing extent come to be seen as the solution to social and labour market related problems alike (Larsen and Andersen, 2019). Thus, despite the use of welfare conditionality in Danish ALMP, Danish job centres serve as an arena for social work, with trained social work professionals constituting the largest staff group (Caswell and Larsen, 2015; Larsen and Caswell, 2022). This also applies for working with young clients (aged 18-29) on the margins of education and employment. As the young clients are not acquiring new competencies or experience via educational or labour market participation, they have been said to constitute a group ‘at risk’, seen from the government’s perspective, a group of ‘unrealised potential’ (Kleif, 2021). Accordingly, motivating unemployed young people to engage in job-seeking activities is a central goal of contemporary ALMP (Hjelte et al., 2018).

Though ALMP have been criticised for limiting the scope for person-centred social work (Schjødt, 2022), SWs still have a great deal of discretion in tailoring activation plans for the individual client (Van Berkel et al., 2017). In the Danish setting, these actions plans are tailored and negotiated through recurring meetings in the job centre between a client and a SW, taking place approximately every third month, or at an interval adjusted to the client’s needs (Caswell, 2020). As such, the jobcentre conversations constitute rather important institutional events, as they largely determine the future steps in the clients’ activation plans.

Data

The article’s data consist of 27 audio-recorded face-to-face conversations between young persons (YPs) (aged 18-29 years old) and SWs at Danish job centres in six different Danish municipalities. The conversations are part of a larger dataset (45 conversations between YPs and SWs in total), which was created as part of two collaborative research-practice projects, in which a total of seven municipalities and the authors took part (see Larsen and Caswell, 2022). The 27 recordings were selected for the purposes of this article, as they all contain ‘motivational talk’ (which we define in the next section).

The conversations are all follow-up conversations, in which the YP and the SW discuss the YP’s progress. As such, the conversations vary in length; from 9 minutes to 67 minutes, 31 minutes on average. The conversations mostly evolve around the same themes: the YP’s physical and mental health status, including progress in potential treatment processes; the YP’s use of activation offers, including courses or job training; and an update on, or reconfirmation of, the YP’s motivation.

All recordings took place with informed consent from both YPs and SWs. In some of the recordings, a researcher was physically present, but in most cases, the researchers were only represented via the audio recorder, for pragmatic reasons and in order to limit the influence on the interaction. All conversations were first transcribed ad verbatim in Danish, then re-transcribed following a Jefferson (2008) ‘lite’ conversation analytical approach, including a focus on pauses, overlapping talk and laughter (see appendix A). The passages that we use in the analysis have been translated into English by the authors (see appendix B for the Danish versions hereof). All biographical information about participants has been anonymised.

Data analysis

To study how motivation is talked into being in naturally occurring meetings at the forefront of Danish ALMP, we follow a conversation analytical (CA) approach. CA assumes that social reality is constructed through human interaction and applies a micro-sociological, inductive epistemology in asking how meaning is achieved through talk. In doing so, CA pays special attention to the sequential ordering of talk and assumes that a speaker’s immediate utterance (‘turn of talk’), is related to the preceding turn, the following turn and so forth. More specifically, “the first turn sets up normative expectations on what is to follow” (Juhila et al., 2014:18), e.g. by asking questions in a specific way, implying preferences for specific answers. When applied to study talk in specific institutional settings, CA assumes that these normative expectations are linked to institutional objectives (e.g. collaboratively formulating an activation plan), and specific institutional roles (e.g. those of social worker and client), thus asking how these objectives are achieved through ‘institutional talk’ (Heritage and Clayman, 2011).

In this study, the focus on motivation is the result of the authors’ ‘unmotivated looking’ (Sacks, 1984) – i.e. inductive listen throughs of the original 45 conversations – followed by an initial CA data session (Antaki, 2008), in which we identified motivation as a thematic pattern that caught our interest. Accordingly, we began an abductive process of familiarising ourselves with the academic literature on motivation in social work and ALMP more specifically, while simultaneously embarking on a CA coding of ‘motivational talk’ sequences in the conversations (Stivers, 2015). In doing so, we operationalised ‘motivational talk’ as sequences that contain either (a) discussions of the YP’s orientation towards future goals (talked about as ‘motivation’, ‘dreams’, ‘hopes’), both long-term and short-term, and (b) discussions of the role of motivation in achieving those goals.

Findings

In the following, we present our findings of how ‘motivation’ is accomplished at the micro-level of social policy, specifically, through encounters between SWs and YPs. The section is structured around our analysis of the interactional process of doing motivation, with the sub-question of which ideas of motivation are talked into being.

Initiating motivational talk

In the dataset, sequences of motivational talk most commonly appear during the last part of the conversation, after discussing the YP’s physical-, mental-, and activation-related progress since the last encounter (being the case in Excerpt 1, see below). In other instances, although less common, the sequences occur at the beginning of the conversation (being the case in Excerpt 2, see below). In most instances, the motivational talk is initiated by the SW asking the YP about their dreams for the future, whether the YP’s overall motivation for activation is still the same, or if the last encounter sparked any new motivations towards education or employment. The following excerpts illustrate examples of how motivational talk gets initiated:

Excerpt 1:

Conversation A26 between social worker (SW) and young person (YP)

1	SW	What, like, in terms of dreams for the future, [name], what do you want to do?
2	YP	I was thinking maybe something like teacher
3	SW	↑Yes?
4	YP	Visual arts or design
5	SW	↑Mmm? (2.0) Is that why you have talked about [Higher Preparatory Examination Course]? Is that what you want to use that for?
6	SW
7	YP	Well that’s mostly if (.) I don’t think I would be able to attend a full-time study-
8	SW	=Mm
9	YP	You know (.) in the near future

Excerpt 2:

Conversation A03 between social worker (SW) and young person (YP)

1	SW	So, after our talk last week (.) Whaaa- (.) Did you think of anything since then (.) or
2	YP	I was thinking about something related to ↑interior design maybe could be quite interesting (.) to get to work with
3	YP
4	SW	Yeah? (1.8) Like decorating homes? (.) or
5	YP	=yes!
6	SW	Because I did see (.) that (.) there is a fair amount that is like sort of creative?
7	YP	=yes!
8	SW	working with shapes, colors, and fabrics (.) this thing about creating something. What do you understand about being creative?
9	SW
10	YP	Well that’s exactly about that (.) yeah I like combining colors and (2.0) graphics and stuff like that. I also think that could be quite interesting. I also like to draw every now and then
11
12

In both excerpts, the motivational talk sequences evolve along a question-answer format, the ‘interview format’, that is well known in professional-client talk (Juhila et al., 2014:19). Initially, the social workers (SWs) are the ones to initiate the topic (Agar, 1985), and in doing so, they use open question designs (‘what would you like’, excerpt 1, line 1; ‘did you think of anything’, excerpt 2, line 1). While this type of question expects an answer, it is limited in terms of preference and as such leaves the floor open for the YP to answer. In excerpt 2 we see the SW using trail-off ‘or’ turn endings. Stokoe (2010) argues that this is a way for speakers to soften possible preferences – here that the YP is expected to have thought of something and that the suggestion of ‘home-decoration’ is right – allowing the YP to answer what they find relevant. The YPs respond in similar ways (‘I was thinking maybe something like’, excerpt 1, line 2; ‘I was thinking about something related to (…) maybe could be quite’, excerpt 2, line 2). Accordingly, the open questions are followed by open answers (Drew et al., 2014). The unclarity of this general talk enables both SW and YP to address issues of labour market participation without either of them committing to a specific solution (Caswell, 2020). Hereafter, the SWs respond with continuers (‘Yes?’, excerpt 1, line 3; ‘Mmm?’, excerpt 1, line 5; ‘Yeah?’, excerpt 2, line 4), and small pauses (excerpt 1, line 5; excerpt 2, line 4), creating space for the YPs to provide more information (Toerien et al., 2013). However, the YPs do not do so, and the SWs go on to suggest concretizations of the YPs’ initial formulations (‘is that why you talked about’, excerpt 1, line 5-6; ‘like decorating homes?’, excerpt 2, line 4), in ways that are directed towards education (excerpt 1, line 5) or specific professions (excerpt 2, line 4).

Initiating talk on the YPs’ motivation thus stands out as an interactional accomplishment, in which the SWs make room for the YPs to articulate their motivations in general terms, before steering the talk towards formulating more concrete (and potentially realisable) activation measures. As we see in excerpt 1, the concretisation of the specific educational way forward by the SW is followed by a YP turn with hesitation (pause), negation (‘I don’t think’) and mitigation (‘not full-time’). Balancing between the openness of the general and the actionable of the concrete is an interactional accomplishment of the participants, which necessitates responsiveness from the SW, as moving from the general towards the concrete is delicate and can spur resistance from the client (Caswell, 2020).

Cultivating motivational talk

As the above excerpts illustrate, the YPs mostly express their initial motivations in general terms. Accordingly, the conversations reveal many instances of ‘cultivating’ motivational talk, in which the SW either seeks to develop the initial motivational statement into something more concrete and short-term realisable, or tries to suggest a different action plan, while keeping the YP’s overall motivation in mind (thus mirroring the findings of interview-based studies, e.g. Nielsen and Monrad, 2023).

In Excerpt 3 below, we see how such a cultivation sequence can look. The YP has previously started a pedagogical education but had to stop due to mental illness and alcohol misuse. Now the YP finds it difficult that their partner and friends, whom the YP knows from the pedagogical education, are steadily progressing, while the YP is stuck at home. The YP is still motivated to complete the education and wants to work within the field of pedagogics but knows that the mental difficulties and alcohol misuse will make it difficult. In the following, we see how the SW suggests an adjustment of the YP’s thoughts about the future:

Excerpt 3:

Conversation A10 between social worker (SW) and young person (YP)

1	SW	Well, I think that the thing about education is that- (2.7) You put- and I think that society plays a role in that too, the idea that when you are young, you need to get an education, that you need to get out the door and go to school. I don’t know if you can look at it a bit differently, [Name], and say that it can very well be that you should be a pedagogue. But it may be that it will be without an education
2
3
4
5
6	YP	=yes
7	SW	You can absolutely do that. There are so many roads, and there are so many ways to get an education today that I think that if you close- If you say that, “this is still what I want. This is my goal. I’m going to be a pedagogue”. But don’t think about the way to get there, right?
8
9
10
11	YP	=yes
12	SW	And then say that “we will figure that out”, right? Because there are so many options. Both with [basic vocational education and training] and (.) ehm (.) what’s it called, apprenticeships. But there are so many options, right?
13
14
15	YP	=yes!
16	SW	But then definitely maybe say that “I still must hold on to this dream. This is what I want to achieve”, right?
17	SW
18	YP	Yes, exactly
19	SW	The way to get there, we will figure that out. So that you don’t close that dream, right?
20	SW
21	YP	Yes

Unlike the question-answer format sequences in excerpt 1 and 2, in which the SWs tried to get the YPs to elaborate on their motivation, the cultivating motivational talk sequence in excerpt 3 has a more unidirectional character: the SW holds the initiative, and the client responds minimally. In all talk turns but the first, the SW ends their turn with ‘right?’, to which the YP reacts affirmingly (line 6, 11, 15, 2), in line with the preference of the question design, seemingly accepting the suggested different action plan. Furthermore, throughout the excerpt, the SW uses hypothetical reported speech (HRS), taking the epistemic position of the YP to formulate wants and dreams of the YP (‘this is still what I want, this is my goal’, line 8-9; ‘I still must hold on to this dream, this is what I want to achieve’, line 16-17). The YP aligns with this by responding ‘yes’ without hesitation (turn 11 and 15) followed by an even stronger alignment “yes, exactly” (turn 18). This mirrors other CA studies (e.g. Koester and Handford, 2018) that find that HRS can serve a persuasive function in decisive moments in formal meetings.

While cultivating motivational talk also casts motivation as an interactional accomplishment, the character of the interaction is more unidirectional and argumentative than the interactional achievement of initiating motivational talk. The previous two sections illustrate the main patterns of motivational talk in our data, showing a balance between general and concrete talk. We also see SWs use extended turns to cultivate motivation by supporting an epistemic position of the YP with hope for the future. In the following, we turn to two deviant examples of motivational talk, which both nuance and confirm the main patterns.

When motivation for work and education cannot be cultivated

Activation-oriented motivational talk can be difficult in conversations with disadvantaged young people who face complex challenges. In some cases, the motivational talk is not oriented towards activation, but takes the more abstract form of hoping, believing or holding on to a dream that a change is going to come. This is in line with previous research, which identifies a SW strategy of “lending temporary hope” to clients (Danneris and Caswell 2019).

Where we enter the conversation in Excerpt 4 below, near the end of an hour long conversation, the YP - who faces multiple physical and mental health problems, and therefore has not been participating in activation recently – has described recurring anxiety attacks, which leaves the YP feeling defeated and exhausted:

Excerpt 4:

Conversation A19 between social worker (SW) and young person (YP)

1	SW	You need to hold on to a wish and the thought that at some point, you will be able to let go of the anxiety, or at least that it won’t be as dominating. In some way, you have to believe that, right [Name]? If you sit down and think: “This is how it is going to be for the rest of my life, it is not going to get any better”, then we have a problem. So we need to hold on to the dream that of course you can arrive at a place that will be your sanctuary, and where the anxiety becomes less and less and where you don’t constantly have to be in fight or flight mode
2
3
4
5
6
7
8	YP	Yeah (.) That’s funny. That thought, that “oh, it is going to be like this for the rest of my life, huh?”, that (.) The few times it has crossed my mind, that, that’s (0,5) dangerous, I feel
9
10
11	SW	=it is
12	YP	Because then I end up thinking about some not very fun stuff. Then it very much becomes “oh, then the rest isn’t worth very much either”. Well, it- Yeah (.)
13	YP
14	SW	And that is why we have to hold on to your dreams and your hopes and your wishes for the future at all times, right? Because that is what sometimes enables us to see our way out of some situations that are not very funny to be in. Yeah
15
16
17	YP	[Yes]

In line 1, the SW urges the YP to ‘hold on to a wish’ that the situation can get better. In doing so, like in excerpt 3, the SW uses HRS (“this is how it is going to be for the rest of my life, it is not going to get any better”, line 3-4), to which the YP responds affirmatively (line 8-10). In addition to this, throughout the excerpt, the SW talks of holding on to a ‘dream’ (line 5), ‘hopes’ and ‘wishes’ (line 14). According to the SW, this can be the way out of bad situations, such as the mental state the YP is currently in (line 15-16). Thus, in this case, motivation is conceptualised in abstract terms as wishes, dreams, and hope. In comparison, the negative thoughts (possibly indicating suicidal thoughts) that are being referenced by both the SW and the YP are attributed to the YP alone, using ‘you’ (line 1), and ‘I’ (line 8-10, line 12). In doing so, the caseworker balances talking about adjusting the YP’s thoughts, which clearly falls within the YP’s epistemological expertise (Mullins and Kirkwood, 2022:4), without leaving the YP alone with having to act (think) differently in a critical situation.

Accounting for non-work-related motivation

A few YPs in our data express long term future aims that diverge from the policy aim of work and education. Where excerpt 4 was an example of a YP experiencing so much uncertainty in the present life situation that articulating any activation-related motivation was impossible, the excerpt below illustrates an example of explicit non-motivation for work or education.

Excerpt 5:

Conversation A03 between social worker (SW) and young person (YP)

1	SW	[Name], what is your greatest wish for the future?
2	YP	(1,5) Oh [ha haha ]
3	SW	[If you look 10 years into-] Where do you see yourself in 10 years? What
4	SW	would you like?
5	YP	Ehm (.) Well ehm (.) honestly, it’s probably (.) ehm (.) either (.) ehm (.) either ↓flexible employment or disability pension. Yeah. And I also shared that thought with [another social worker] and told her about that and stuff like that. Ehm (.) yeah (.) she said that she understood, but- I also want to (.) I really want to (.) you know (.) try flexible employment because it’s also just really healthy to have something to get out for, go out for. But (.) yeah (.) yeah (.) as I said, ↑I think- I (.) I’m not passionate about that thing about education, because I realized that it is ↑too hard. Then I’m more passionate about having ↑energy for my family and focus [all my energy with them]
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14	SW	[I can understand that]

In line 1, we see the professional pose a ‘typical’ open question about wishes for the future (see excerpts 1 and 2). However, in this excerpt, the following turn contains several elements of resistance, with the YP using a pause, an exclamation and laughter that all contribute to dis-alignment with the previous turn. The SW immediately repairs by adjusting the question design, initially with overlapping talk using a pre-formulation and then asking two different questions (‘Where do you see yourself in 10 years?’ and ‘What would you like?’, line 3). The YP now initiates a long turn of talk, starting again with pauses, hesitation and self-interruptions indicating trouble, which may be a way to display resistance. The YP then introduces the institutional relevant options of flexible employment or disability pension before ending the turn with expressing motivation for ‘having energy for my family’ (line 12). The turn is designed as an account, which typically expresses ‘gaps between expectations and actions’ (Scott and Lyman 1968:46). Thus, the YP explicitly states that her lack of work-related motivation is not related to a lack of will (‘I really want to’, line 8) (cf. Mäkitalo, 2006), but is rather a realization that has come to her over time (‘I realized that’, line 11), due to circumstances out of her control (‘it is too hard’, line 11). This (lack of) motivation is expressed with a considerable amount of delicacy (cf. Van Nijnatten and Suoninen, 2014), marked by pauses, self-interruptions, hesitation markers (‘ehm’, ‘well’, line 5; ‘you know’, line 8-9), impersonal expressions (‘healthy to have something to go out for’, line 9-10), and indirect expressions (‘either flexible employment or disability pension’, line 6; ‘I’m not passionate about..’, line 11). Altogether, this design ‘delays’ the statement of what the YP actually wishes for her future (‘having energy for my family’), without making it explicit what this entails in terms of her current position as part of the employment services. The SW seemingly accepts this expression with her response in turn 5, affiliating with the YP’s perspective (‘I can understand that’, line 14).

The excerpt makes visible how the ALMP setting is continuously present in motivational talk in our data. Thus, the considerable care with which the YP expresses her motivation can be understood as a demonstration of her orientation towards the expectations of work/education in ALMP settings; because this expectation is prevalent, the expression of alternative motivations must be done with extra interactional work to be acceptable in this situation and institutional context.

Concluding discussion

In this article, we have shown how motivation is interactionally accomplished through ‘motivational talk’ between YPs and SWs at the forefront of Danish ALMP. In the analysis, we highlight four instances of motivational talk: (1) When SWs initiate motivational talk by posing open and general questions, seemingly assuming an already-existing motivation residing within the YP, which is followed (2) by a subsequent negotiation sequence, closer to actual decision making, in which the SW ‘cultivates’ or adjusts the YP’s initial motivations into realisable and short-term activation steps. In the few instances in our data, where the YP does not express motivation for education or employment, ‘motivational talk’ consists of (3) the SW encouraging the YP to hold on to any motivation, conceptualised as ‘hope’, ‘wishes’, and ‘dreams’, to believe that a change is going to come, even when the present situation seems hopeless, or (4) the YP taking considerable interactional care in accounting for non-work related motivation. In the following, we discuss the implications of our findings.

First, the analysis shows how ‘motivational talk’ is initiated by the SWs, e.g. by asking the YPs about their ‘future dreams’. By asking open-ended questions, the SWs allow for the YPs to articulate their dreams and motivations without negative consequences. As such, this ‘soft’ motivational doing (Pultz, 2019) seemingly allows for the subsequent action plan negotiation to be based upon the YPs’ ‘autonomous’, or at least ‘identified’, motivation (Schjødt, 2022). Relating ‘soft’ motivational doing to self-reflexive client participation (Monrad, 2020), however, the SWs not only allow for the YPs to articulate their inner states but also place an expectation that they do so (ibid.:553ff). This expectation becomes clear in the analysis of a deviant case (Excerpt 5) in which a YP takes considerable interactional care to express a motivation that does not align with the policy setting of the conversation (see also Mäkitalo, 2006).

Second, the analysis shows how the initiating sequence of motivational talk is followed by a sequence, in which the SWs cultivate or adjust the YPs’ immediate motivation claim into (in the SWs’ view) realistic goals, and actionable next steps (see Nielsen and Monrad, 2023:815f; Grandia et al., 2020: 832f for similar findings in interview-based studies). In these sequences of motivational talk, where the conversation moves closer to actual decision making, the interaction becomes less collaborative and more argumentative than in the initiating talk sequences (see also Dall and Jørgensen, 2022). At the point where social work and motivational techniques meet, this is perhaps ambiguous. On the one hand, it may contrast with core principles of Motivational Interviewing, such as using primarily open-ended questions and trying to resist giving advice (Miller and Rollnick, 2012). On the other hand, it can be argued that assessing whether a client’s goals are feasible in specific institutional frameworks, ultimately in order to bring about change, is a core feature of social work (Gold, 1990:53). This ‘cultivation’, we argue, gives backing to conceptualising the doings of motivations at the forefront of ALMP as a relational, contextual accomplishment. Relational, as it shows how YPs’ motivations are cultivated and made relevant in terms of action plan decision making through dialogue with the frontline workers (see also Juhila et al., 2021 on the concept of ‘relational autonomy’). And contextual, as ‘abstract’, overall motivations – such as ‘something related to interior decoration’ (excerpt (2) – are translated into concrete activation steps through the meeting with the institutional context of ALMP (Katznelson, 2017).

As we have seen in the excerpts included in this paper, such a relational enactment of motivation is very much dependent of SWs taking care to build relations in interaction with YPs. The findings thus have implications for SWs in ALMP settings, as they call attention to the role of SWs’ interaction with YPs in achieving meaningful (social) work. Other studies have suggested that analysis of naturally occurring interaction may serve to make the otherwise ‘invisible’ interactional routines of SWs ‘visible’ (Hall and White, 2005), or more directly be used to inform professional reflection (Caswell and Dall 2023; Kirkwood et al., 2016).

In terms of future research, the analysis suggests that data from naturally occurring interaction may inform our understandings of motivation and the doing hereof in social work. However, more research is needed in order to further our understanding of the delicate ways in which motivation is done in ALMP settings, for instance, by looking into the ways in which ‘hopes’ and ‘dreams’ are used as interactional devices in motivational talk.

Supplemental Material

Supplemental material - Motivational talk: Doing motivation in job centre meetings with disadvantaged youth

Supplemental material for Motivational talk: Doing motivation in job centre meetings with disadvantaged youth by Nicolai Nybro Hansen, Tanja Dall, Dorte Caswell in Qualitative Social Work.

Footnotes

Acknowledgements

The data analysed in this article is the result of a years-long collaboration between our research group at the Department of Sociology and Social Work, AAU Copenhagen, and organisations in Danish Public Employment services. We sincerely thank all of the professionals, managers and unemployed individuals who has participated in data collection activities. Additionally, initial conceptualisation of motivation and research interest, as well as preliminary findings from the analysis, has been presented at knowledge mobilizing seminars and sessions parallel to the writing of the paper. Again, we sincerely thank professionals and managers for valuable insights and feedback. Furthermore, the first draft of the paper has been presented at the WISER research group at Aalborg University, of which all authors are part. We thank all group members for their valuable comments. Lastly, we wish to thank the two anonymous reviewers from QSW. Your thorough comments helped strengthen the quality of the manuscript for the second and third submission. We wish to thank the two anonymous reviewers for their very valuable comments to the first editions of the manuscript.

ORCID iDs

Nicolai Nybro Hansen

Tanja Dall

Dorte Caswell

Ethical considerations

National and university guidelines on ethical conduct and data management have been followed throughout. The project has been registered with the Danish Data Protection Agency, but national and university guidelines does not require, nor make it possible to receive, formal ethics approval.

Consent to participate

All participants involved in data collection have given informed, written consent to their participation in the project. Since data collection have been conducted over several years, consent have been verbally re-confirmed at all activities (interviews, workshops, observations and more), and the right to withdraw consent have been repeated.

Author contributions

NNH, TD and DC have all contributed to initial analyses, conceptualization, review and editing. Furthermore, they have all contributed to reviewing the first manuscript.

NNH and TD were co-responsible for the first drafts of analyses and the concluding discussion.

NNH has been main responsible for qualitative coding, literature review, and writing first drafts of the introduction, state of the art, and methodology sessions. Furthermore, NNH was main responsible for reviewing the second manuscript.

Funding

The authors disclosed receipt of the following financial support for the research, authorship, and/or publication of this article: This work was supported by the A. P. Møllerske Støttefond under Grant number 12482.

Declaration of conflicting interests

The authors declared no potential conflicts of interest with respect to the research, authorship, and/or publication of this article.

Data Availability Statement

Data cannot be shared to preserve respondents’ confidentiality; however, materials will be shared via a public repository pending acceptance.*

Supplemental Material

Supplemental material for this article is available online.

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